PW and others. There are no wrong answers on this question. This is a big one. I am more trying to illustrate a point as opposed to get everybody to hit the history books or sites.
I left off Bob Smith in 2002, he lost in a primary, as he illustrates my point.
Has anyone seen the article that is currently being reported on the cnn websight concerning another fallen marine’s mom? It counters Cindy’s maniac ranting. Check it out! It is under the More News section titled “Fallen Marine’s Mom-Support the fight” It needs to be widely reported. I contacted Drudge and let him know.
MikeKS,
I’m sorry about your beloved Royals. It is a young team. Did you see where Buddy Bell’s nephew was killed in Iraq? As far as I know Buddy Bell is not going to leave the dugout to join the nutty lady and the angry leftest groups in TX.
Ralph – On the theory that the most likely incumbents to be defeated are those who have been appointed to their seats, I present this partial list:
Maurice Murphy (R-NH) defeated 1962
Howard Edmonson (D-OK) in 1964
Donald Russell (D-SC) in 1966
David Gambrell (D-GA) in 1972
Howard Metzenbaum (D-OH) in 1974
Paul Hatfield (D-MT) in 1978
Maryon Allen (D-AL) in 1978
Sheila Frahm (R-KS) in 1996
You present reason #1 for primary defeat. Appointed Senators. I would add Donald Stewart of Alabama to his list as a asterisk. He was not appointed, but defeated an appointee in (Mrs. Allen in 1978)a primary and then two years later had to run again in 1980. Stewart did not have 6 years to establish himself and that hurt him in a party primary.
The other two big reasons for Primary defeats are :
1. Age (hung around too long)
2. Ideology or a single issue.
Let’s look at these by decade next and that illustrate my point.
What other primary defeats took place in 1980’s and 1990’s?
1st Congrats BillW. Second a challedge to BillW. Perhaps the most crucial senate primary defeat in 1970’s took place in NC. Do you remember?
OK, since I am not even going to try to do this without cheating
We have Sheila Frahm of Kansas, defeated by Brownback in the primary in 1996. Alan Dixon was defeated by the worst Senator in U.S. History in the 1992 Illinois Democrat primary by Carol Moseley-Braun. That makes two for the 1990s. Interestingly, both were holds for the party, just like NH with Sununu and Smith.
Moving on to the 1980s… Donald Stewart of Alabama was defeated by the James Folsom in the Democrat primary of 1980. Similarly, Mike Gravel of Alaska was defeated by Clark Gruening in the Democrat primary. Richard Stone was defeated in the Democrat primary in Florida the same year. Jacob Javitz lost in NY’s Democrat primary to Elizabeth Holtzman the same year (wow, what was up in 1980!?!?!). ***All four lost to Republicans in the general.*** That was it for the decade.
That 70’s show. 1978, Maryon Allen lost to Donald Stewart (him again) in the Democrat primary (it was a special election). The Democrats held that seat. Max Baucus, the same year, took out Paul Hatfield in the Montana Democrat primary (and has been in the Senate since). The same year, the Republicans jettisoned one of their own, Cliff Case, to Jeffrey Bell in New Jersey– and the Democrats won the general. In 1974, Dale Bumpers took out Clinton’s mentor William Fulbright in Arkansas; Bumpers won the seat. John Glenn famously beat Howard Metzenbaum and went on to win the Ohio seat. In 1972, David Gambrell lost to Sam Nunn in the Georgia Democrat primary; the Democrats held the seat. Everett Jordan lost to Nick Galifianakis in the NC Democrat primary, but then lost to Jesse Helms. In 1970, Democrat Ralph Yarborough lost to Lloyd Bentsen in the Democrat primary of Texas. Bentsen then defeated George H.W. Bush, who would later take revenge. That’s eight that I count.
The sixties. Alaska, 1968, Democrat Mike Gravel beat Ernest Gruening. The Democrats won the general as well. Max Rafferty beat Thomas Kuchel in the Cal Republican primary; Alan Cranston won in the general. Edward Long lost to Thomas Eagleton in the Missouah Democrat primary– the Democrats won in Nov as well. They were less lucky in Ohio, where incumbent Frank Lausche lost to John Gilligan in the primary, who then lost to Republican William Saxbe. In a special election in 1966, Donald Russell of SC lost to Fritz Hollings in the Democrat primary. Frank Clement of TN beat party mate Ross Bass, but lost the seat for his party to Howard Baker jr. In Old Dominion, Willis Robertson fell to William Spong Jr in the Democrat primary, but the Dems held the seat. 1964, OK special election, Fred Harris took out incumbent Democrat James Edmondson in the primary and then won the seat. 1962, NH special election, Republican Maurice Murphy lost to Perkins Bass, giving the Democrats an opening they took to win the seat. That was it for the decade. 9.
1950s. 1954 to be exact. NH Republican primary saw Robert Upton lose to Norris Cotton. The GOP still won. Same year, different party, NC Democrat Alton Lennon lost to William Kerr Scott, who won the seat as well. 1952, Rep Maine primary, Ralph Brewster lost to Frederick G. Payne, but they won the seat. Democrat Kenneth McKellar lost to Albert Gore the Elder, who won the seat. And in 1950, Democrat Claude Pepper of Florida lost to George Smathers, who held the seat; Democrat Glen Taylor of Idaho lost to Worth Clark, who lost to Herman Welker. In a special, Democrat Frank Porter Graham of NC lost to Willis Smith, who went on to win in Nov. Elmer Thomas of OK lost in the primary to Mike Monroney, who won in Nov. And SD Republican Chandler Gurney lost to Francis Case, who went on to Washington.
You did great. Congrats. When does mind allow you to have daily thoughts. My knowlege of primaries only goes to the 1960’s so I may have to give you the Robert Byrd History award.
In the 1960’s and 1970’s the Rep. primary in CA 1968, NY(80) and NJ(78) was idealogy. The democratic primaries in OH(68) , AK(68), and TX(70) were in the same camp. The primaries in Va(66), AR(74) and NC(72) were a combination of age and ideolgy.
The 1980 AK primary and 1992 Il primary were mostly personal and hard to catagorize. Maybe Al the Pal lost because of women issues or maybe he was a downstater in a Chicago year.
8 primary defeats in 1960s
8 primary defeats in 1970s
4 primary defeats in the year 1980
Three primary defeats in the last 12 senate election cycles. Notice a trend since 1980?
I believe the reason is “Hellbelly Night” . The republican takeover of the senate in 1980 signaled a change. The party makeup of the senate would be up for grabs in every election plus now between 40 and 45 states could conceivably elect a candidate from either party.
Primaries are a luxury now. Winning is king thats why Specter survived in 2004. Thats why Smith lost in 2002.
Gerry’s list appears to be exhaustive, so I’m probably wrong about this, but didn’t Sen. Thomas Dodd of CT lose in a primary? Or was it in the general to Lowell Weicker?
Dodd would have lost in the democratic primary in 1970, but chose to run for re-election as an independent in 1970. He lost to Weicker in 1970’s general election.
D’Amato did beat Javits in GOP primary in 1980 and Javits lost the general election as he was running on the Liberal ticket that year.
Gerry I do not consider Web sites and reference books cheating, but legitimate uses of one time in answering this any of my questions. I do this my enjoyment and glad to find interested folks here. I pose questions, sometimes that are a little harder and do not desire that one spend valuable time in relatively pointless details.
As I went thru the states for my questions it really struck me how party primaries are fading away. Plus the civil rights and Vietnam work really divided the parties. That was a time of internal struggle for both parties in the 1960’s and 1970’s.
I appreciate caring enough to find the answers. My reference books and now web sites are my some of my older friends. Looking in them is not cheating either visiting and renewing old ties.
I even got a compliment from my oldest daughter today. She said to my wife “I may be as smart as you one day Mom, but I will never been as smart as Dad.”
I do not believe that is true, but teenage girls do not hand out many compliments.
I just wanted to say something to Cory about his Iraq tirade yesterday, because it is an issue near and dear to my heart.
Cory, you said that we have “F’d up” everything in Iraq and that it is more dangerous today than anytime since 1991. You claim that we can never win in Iraq now, and we ought to just get out while we can.
You are despicable. No, I am not above using personal insults in regard to this issue. You are. You are the example of everything that is wrong with this country and your country when it comes to the war in Iraq.
I have had two cousins, an uncle, a step brother and two close friends shipped over to Iraq in the past couple of years. Luckily, all of them made it back alive, and one of them is heading back for his third tour in the Middle East. He is more than willing to go.
I have had an opportunity to talk with all of them except one of my cousins whom I don’t see often at all. Every single one of them, to a T, told me – and tells everyone who’ll listen – that the real Iraq looks infinitely different than the Iraq the media is showing us. They all told us we might as well not even bother watching the news. Some even said they broadcast lies. So it comes as no surprise to me that the approval ratings for this war are dipping. But it’s a good thing W doesn’t watch the polls. He gets the real story from the commanders on the ground, and knows we’re winning.
If we lose Iraq, it will solely be on the backs of the media, as they have soured public opinion with their biased, dishonest reporting – responding with glee everytime an American soldier passes away.
My step brother, uncle, and cousin came home worried about whether or not they were going to be accepted or spat upon when they reached America. They get news broadcasts over there and see what the media is saying about Iraq and about them. NO AMERICAN SOLDIER SHOULD EVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT. EVER. My friends who went over there, including the one going back for another tour, explicitly stated that people may say they support the troops but not the war, but to them, that means you do not support them because the war is their job.
Cory, you ought to talk to a soldier about Iraq sometime. Ask him about the children who stream out of houses every time American vehicles roll down the street. Ask him about the parades of Iraqi citizens waving at Americans that form when we go through a town. Ask him about how the Iraqis are slowly gaining the courage and strength to turn in their neighbors for setting up IEDs. Ask him about how a vast, vast majority of Iraqis now view their future positively instead of negatively. Ask him about the missions of handing out candy, soccer balls, frisbees, turkeys, and such for free to Iraqis that never get shown on the news. Ask him about their most recent school/hospital/power plant/water treatment center opening that they worked hard to accomplish that never gets shown on the news.
You, sir, are the one who needs a reality check. You had better watch your mouth (or your typing fingers) when it comes to American troops in Iraq, because it’s people exactly like you – who wanted this thing to fail from the getgo – who are making it worse than it has to be for us. We are winning, and will win, in Iraq. And when we come home, you and all your pathetically despicable buddies will spin it as a defeat, because that’s how sick and demented you are – cheering against freedom. But we will know we won, and it will be a great victory for America and for freedom all over the world.
I followed the Dixon-Hoefel-Moseley-B primary in IL VERY closely. IMO, Dixon lost for one reason only: the savage & lavishly-financed negative TV ad campaign that was self-financed by Hoefel. These ads had two themes: 1)Dixon was corrupt & had a lot of corrupt associates, & 2) Dixon was old & out-of-touch.
Dixon underestimated his peril for way too long. By his last term in the Senate, he was anything but politically agile.
I never liked Dixon, ever. But the negative attack ads were pretty offensive. Had the GOP had a real candidate that year, instead of a token candidate named Williamson, Moseley-B would have lost. Anticipating that Dixon was safe, GOP nominated an unknown rich lawyer. Williamson started as pro-abortion & then waffled. He was a disaster who managed to offend the handful of people who actually knew he was.
I thought Rich Williamson started as pro-life but waffled. If I remember that one correctly, Mosely Braun slipped in under the radar while Dixon and Hoefel were hammering away at each other. The same thing happened that year in WI (although not with an incumbent) on the D side. A prominent US Rep (I think his name was Moody or something like that) was battling it out with some prominent businessman for the D nomination. While those two beat each other up, a little known state senator with a humorous folksy, low-key approach named Russ Feingold sailed to the nomination with something like 70% of the vote, and of course took out incumbent Kasten that year.
You may be right. I remember the waffling, but forget which side of the issue that putz started out on.
Carole M-B used to have a district office right next to the building in which I work. I remember the day that workmen came with ladders & took down her sign. It was the most fun I’ve ever had with my pants on.
It didn’t help Dixon that he spent 47 years continuously in public office (Maybe 37 years; who cares? same difference), & when he left office… he was worth $6 million.
The newspapers had a lot of fun with that. Remember the song from “Fiorello”? “It’s just a little tin box, a little tin box, that a little tin key unlocks…”
Illinois is legendary for this. A note on these when the former secretary of state, from Ill, died there was shoe boxes full of cash in his closet.
One of these days I will repeat the story of the legendary “Tubbo Gilbert” who was the richest policeman in the world. A source of great civic pride in Chicago.
HeavyM
“My step brother, uncle, and cousin came home worried about whether or not they were going to be accepted or spat upon when they reached America”.
Where on earth are they getting their information? Nowhere in the MSM have I ever seen or heard anything disrespectful about US troops. As a matter of fact, over the past few years I have been struck by the spontaneous shows of approval and support given to American servicemen in airports and other places. Some have even been given free upgrades to first class on airplanes, to the approval of the other passengers. Don’t service people talk to each other? Frankly, if what you say is true, I’m a little disappointed in their lack of faith in the American people.
From yesterday:
HB: 2
Ralph: 1
Cal: 1
Ironman: 1
Comment by pw — August 18, 2005 @ 7:57 am
PW and others. There are no wrong answers on this question. This is a big one. I am more trying to illustrate a point as opposed to get everybody to hit the history books or sites.
I left off Bob Smith in 2002, he lost in a primary, as he illustrates my point.
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 8:07 am
Without looking it up? You have to be kidding me! LOL
Comment by Gerry — August 18, 2005 @ 8:07 am
Has anyone seen the article that is currently being reported on the cnn websight concerning another fallen marine’s mom? It counters Cindy’s maniac ranting. Check it out! It is under the More News section titled “Fallen Marine’s Mom-Support the fight” It needs to be widely reported. I contacted Drudge and let him know.
Comment by Dsmoot — August 18, 2005 @ 8:10 am
how is it that gooooooogle sees fit to put anti-bush-gear ads on your site?
i’ll admit that I check this site perhaps only once every couple of days, but…um….i think they’re targeting the wrong audience.
Comment by Reader — August 18, 2005 @ 8:47 am
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007122
Comment by jones — August 18, 2005 @ 8:52 am
MikeKS,
I’m sorry about your beloved Royals. It is a young team. Did you see where Buddy Bell’s nephew was killed in Iraq? As far as I know Buddy Bell is not going to leave the dugout to join the nutty lady and the angry leftest groups in TX.
Comment by GO DUKE!!! — August 18, 2005 @ 9:00 am
Hey Hedgehogs,
I can’t bring my TV to the beach. Can you tell me if the Leftest MSM is giddy over the govt seizure of private property in Gaza?
Comment by GO DUKE!!! — August 18, 2005 @ 9:05 am
Ralph – On the theory that the most likely incumbents to be defeated are those who have been appointed to their seats, I present this partial list:
Maurice Murphy (R-NH) defeated 1962
Howard Edmonson (D-OK) in 1964
Donald Russell (D-SC) in 1966
David Gambrell (D-GA) in 1972
Howard Metzenbaum (D-OH) in 1974
Paul Hatfield (D-MT) in 1978
Maryon Allen (D-AL) in 1978
Sheila Frahm (R-KS) in 1996
Comment by BillW — August 18, 2005 @ 9:15 am
BilLW
You present reason #1 for primary defeat. Appointed Senators. I would add Donald Stewart of Alabama to his list as a asterisk. He was not appointed, but defeated an appointee in (Mrs. Allen in 1978)a primary and then two years later had to run again in 1980. Stewart did not have 6 years to establish himself and that hurt him in a party primary.
The other two big reasons for Primary defeats are :
1. Age (hung around too long)
2. Ideology or a single issue.
Let’s look at these by decade next and that illustrate my point.
What other primary defeats took place in 1980’s and 1990’s?
1st Congrats BillW. Second a challedge to BillW. Perhaps the most crucial senate primary defeat in 1970’s took place in NC. Do you remember?
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 9:32 am
OK, since I am not even going to try to do this without cheating
We have Sheila Frahm of Kansas, defeated by Brownback in the primary in 1996. Alan Dixon was defeated by the worst Senator in U.S. History in the 1992 Illinois Democrat primary by Carol Moseley-Braun. That makes two for the 1990s. Interestingly, both were holds for the party, just like NH with Sununu and Smith.
Moving on to the 1980s… Donald Stewart of Alabama was defeated by the James Folsom in the Democrat primary of 1980. Similarly, Mike Gravel of Alaska was defeated by Clark Gruening in the Democrat primary. Richard Stone was defeated in the Democrat primary in Florida the same year. Jacob Javitz lost in NY’s Democrat primary to Elizabeth Holtzman the same year (wow, what was up in 1980!?!?!). ***All four lost to Republicans in the general.*** That was it for the decade.
That 70’s show. 1978, Maryon Allen lost to Donald Stewart (him again) in the Democrat primary (it was a special election). The Democrats held that seat. Max Baucus, the same year, took out Paul Hatfield in the Montana Democrat primary (and has been in the Senate since). The same year, the Republicans jettisoned one of their own, Cliff Case, to Jeffrey Bell in New Jersey– and the Democrats won the general. In 1974, Dale Bumpers took out Clinton’s mentor William Fulbright in Arkansas; Bumpers won the seat. John Glenn famously beat Howard Metzenbaum and went on to win the Ohio seat. In 1972, David Gambrell lost to Sam Nunn in the Georgia Democrat primary; the Democrats held the seat. Everett Jordan lost to Nick Galifianakis in the NC Democrat primary, but then lost to Jesse Helms. In 1970, Democrat Ralph Yarborough lost to Lloyd Bentsen in the Democrat primary of Texas. Bentsen then defeated George H.W. Bush, who would later take revenge. That’s eight that I count.
The sixties. Alaska, 1968, Democrat Mike Gravel beat Ernest Gruening. The Democrats won the general as well. Max Rafferty beat Thomas Kuchel in the Cal Republican primary; Alan Cranston won in the general. Edward Long lost to Thomas Eagleton in the Missouah Democrat primary– the Democrats won in Nov as well. They were less lucky in Ohio, where incumbent Frank Lausche lost to John Gilligan in the primary, who then lost to Republican William Saxbe. In a special election in 1966, Donald Russell of SC lost to Fritz Hollings in the Democrat primary. Frank Clement of TN beat party mate Ross Bass, but lost the seat for his party to Howard Baker jr. In Old Dominion, Willis Robertson fell to William Spong Jr in the Democrat primary, but the Dems held the seat. 1964, OK special election, Fred Harris took out incumbent Democrat James Edmondson in the primary and then won the seat. 1962, NH special election, Republican Maurice Murphy lost to Perkins Bass, giving the Democrats an opening they took to win the seat. That was it for the decade. 9.
1950s. 1954 to be exact. NH Republican primary saw Robert Upton lose to Norris Cotton. The GOP still won. Same year, different party, NC Democrat Alton Lennon lost to William Kerr Scott, who won the seat as well. 1952, Rep Maine primary, Ralph Brewster lost to Frederick G. Payne, but they won the seat. Democrat Kenneth McKellar lost to Albert Gore the Elder, who won the seat. And in 1950, Democrat Claude Pepper of Florida lost to George Smathers, who held the seat; Democrat Glen Taylor of Idaho lost to Worth Clark, who lost to Herman Welker. In a special, Democrat Frank Porter Graham of NC lost to Willis Smith, who went on to win in Nov. Elmer Thomas of OK lost in the primary to Mike Monroney, who won in Nov. And SD Republican Chandler Gurney lost to Francis Case, who went on to Washington.
That’s what I found.
Comment by Gerry — August 18, 2005 @ 9:33 am
Actually, Javits was defeated by D’Amato in the Repub. primary.
Comment by RichardG — August 18, 2005 @ 9:48 am
Gerry
You did great. Congrats. When does mind allow you to have daily thoughts. My knowlege of primaries only goes to the 1960’s so I may have to give you the Robert Byrd History award.
In the 1960’s and 1970’s the Rep. primary in CA 1968, NY(80) and NJ(78) was idealogy. The democratic primaries in OH(68) , AK(68), and TX(70) were in the same camp. The primaries in Va(66), AR(74) and NC(72) were a combination of age and ideolgy.
The 1980 AK primary and 1992 Il primary were mostly personal and hard to catagorize. Maybe Al the Pal lost because of women issues or maybe he was a downstater in a Chicago year.
8 primary defeats in 1960s
8 primary defeats in 1970s
4 primary defeats in the year 1980
Three primary defeats in the last 12 senate election cycles. Notice a trend since 1980?
I believe the reason is “Hellbelly Night” . The republican takeover of the senate in 1980 signaled a change. The party makeup of the senate would be up for grabs in every election plus now between 40 and 45 states could conceivably elect a candidate from either party.
Primaries are a luxury now. Winning is king thats why Specter survived in 2004. Thats why Smith lost in 2002.
Congrats to everyone.
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 9:49 am
Gerry’s list appears to be exhaustive, so I’m probably wrong about this, but didn’t Sen. Thomas Dodd of CT lose in a primary? Or was it in the general to Lowell Weicker?
Comment by AuH2ORepublican — August 18, 2005 @ 10:02 am
Dodd would have lost in the democratic primary in 1970, but chose to run for re-election as an independent in 1970. He lost to Weicker in 1970’s general election.
D’Amato did beat Javits in GOP primary in 1980 and Javits lost the general election as he was running on the Liberal ticket that year.
Gerry I do not consider Web sites and reference books cheating, but legitimate uses of one time in answering this any of my questions. I do this my enjoyment and glad to find interested folks here. I pose questions, sometimes that are a little harder and do not desire that one spend valuable time in relatively pointless details.
As I went thru the states for my questions it really struck me how party primaries are fading away. Plus the civil rights and Vietnam work really divided the parties. That was a time of internal struggle for both parties in the 1960’s and 1970’s.
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 10:12 am
Ralph–
I’d love to say that I got that from memory. But I blatently and unapologetically cheated on this one
And I still screwed up Javitz.
Comment by Gerry — August 18, 2005 @ 10:46 am
Gerry
I appreciate caring enough to find the answers. My reference books and now web sites are my some of my older friends. Looking in them is not cheating either visiting and renewing old ties.
I even got a compliment from my oldest daughter today. She said to my wife “I may be as smart as you one day Mom, but I will never been as smart as Dad.”
I do not believe that is true, but teenage girls do not hand out many compliments.
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 11:07 am
I just wanted to say something to Cory about his Iraq tirade yesterday, because it is an issue near and dear to my heart.
Cory, you said that we have “F’d up” everything in Iraq and that it is more dangerous today than anytime since 1991. You claim that we can never win in Iraq now, and we ought to just get out while we can.
You are despicable. No, I am not above using personal insults in regard to this issue. You are. You are the example of everything that is wrong with this country and your country when it comes to the war in Iraq.
I have had two cousins, an uncle, a step brother and two close friends shipped over to Iraq in the past couple of years. Luckily, all of them made it back alive, and one of them is heading back for his third tour in the Middle East. He is more than willing to go.
I have had an opportunity to talk with all of them except one of my cousins whom I don’t see often at all. Every single one of them, to a T, told me – and tells everyone who’ll listen – that the real Iraq looks infinitely different than the Iraq the media is showing us. They all told us we might as well not even bother watching the news. Some even said they broadcast lies. So it comes as no surprise to me that the approval ratings for this war are dipping. But it’s a good thing W doesn’t watch the polls. He gets the real story from the commanders on the ground, and knows we’re winning.
If we lose Iraq, it will solely be on the backs of the media, as they have soured public opinion with their biased, dishonest reporting – responding with glee everytime an American soldier passes away.
My step brother, uncle, and cousin came home worried about whether or not they were going to be accepted or spat upon when they reached America. They get news broadcasts over there and see what the media is saying about Iraq and about them. NO AMERICAN SOLDIER SHOULD EVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT. EVER. My friends who went over there, including the one going back for another tour, explicitly stated that people may say they support the troops but not the war, but to them, that means you do not support them because the war is their job.
Cory, you ought to talk to a soldier about Iraq sometime. Ask him about the children who stream out of houses every time American vehicles roll down the street. Ask him about the parades of Iraqi citizens waving at Americans that form when we go through a town. Ask him about how the Iraqis are slowly gaining the courage and strength to turn in their neighbors for setting up IEDs. Ask him about how a vast, vast majority of Iraqis now view their future positively instead of negatively. Ask him about the missions of handing out candy, soccer balls, frisbees, turkeys, and such for free to Iraqis that never get shown on the news. Ask him about their most recent school/hospital/power plant/water treatment center opening that they worked hard to accomplish that never gets shown on the news.
You, sir, are the one who needs a reality check. You had better watch your mouth (or your typing fingers) when it comes to American troops in Iraq, because it’s people exactly like you – who wanted this thing to fail from the getgo – who are making it worse than it has to be for us. We are winning, and will win, in Iraq. And when we come home, you and all your pathetically despicable buddies will spin it as a defeat, because that’s how sick and demented you are – cheering against freedom. But we will know we won, and it will be a great victory for America and for freedom all over the world.
Comment by HeavyM — August 18, 2005 @ 11:31 am
Ralph
I followed the Dixon-Hoefel-Moseley-B primary in IL VERY closely. IMO, Dixon lost for one reason only: the savage & lavishly-financed negative TV ad campaign that was self-financed by Hoefel. These ads had two themes: 1)Dixon was corrupt & had a lot of corrupt associates, & 2) Dixon was old & out-of-touch.
Dixon underestimated his peril for way too long. By his last term in the Senate, he was anything but politically agile.
I never liked Dixon, ever. But the negative attack ads were pretty offensive. Had the GOP had a real candidate that year, instead of a token candidate named Williamson, Moseley-B would have lost. Anticipating that Dixon was safe, GOP nominated an unknown rich lawyer. Williamson started as pro-abortion & then waffled. He was a disaster who managed to offend the handful of people who actually knew he was.
Comment by mnw — August 18, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
I thought Rich Williamson started as pro-life but waffled. If I remember that one correctly, Mosely Braun slipped in under the radar while Dixon and Hoefel were hammering away at each other. The same thing happened that year in WI (although not with an incumbent) on the D side. A prominent US Rep (I think his name was Moody or something like that) was battling it out with some prominent businessman for the D nomination. While those two beat each other up, a little known state senator with a humorous folksy, low-key approach named Russ Feingold sailed to the nomination with something like 70% of the vote, and of course took out incumbent Kasten that year.
Comment by RichardG — August 18, 2005 @ 1:26 pm
HeavyM,
you da man! say it, brother!
Comment by hellbelly — August 18, 2005 @ 1:35 pm
RichardG
You may be right. I remember the waffling, but forget which side of the issue that putz started out on.
Carole M-B used to have a district office right next to the building in which I work. I remember the day that workmen came with ladders & took down her sign. It was the most fun I’ve ever had with my pants on.
Comment by mnw — August 18, 2005 @ 2:15 pm
mnw
Thanks for his insight. I had left St. Louis by then and was totally clueless as to why Dixon lost that primary.
His loss really did not fit any catagory except maybe the enraged female point.
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 2:23 pm
Ralph
It didn’t help Dixon that he spent 47 years continuously in public office (Maybe 37 years; who cares? same difference), & when he left office… he was worth $6 million.
The newspapers had a lot of fun with that. Remember the song from “Fiorello”? “It’s just a little tin box, a little tin box, that a little tin key unlocks…”
Comment by mnw — August 18, 2005 @ 4:33 pm
mnw
Illinois is legendary for this. A note on these when the former secretary of state, from Ill, died there was shoe boxes full of cash in his closet.
One of these days I will repeat the story of the legendary “Tubbo Gilbert” who was the richest policeman in the world. A source of great civic pride in Chicago.
Comment by Ralph — August 18, 2005 @ 5:07 pm
FYI: The primary in 1992 with Dixon and Moseley-Braun… the third person was Hofeld (not Hoefel).
Comment by wheelz — August 18, 2005 @ 5:56 pm
Heavy M,
Amen!
Comment by GO DUKE!!! — August 18, 2005 @ 9:28 pm
How many politicians spend twenty years in office and aren’t rich? Very thrifty with their own money, if not ours.
Comment by timactual — August 19, 2005 @ 7:08 am
HeavyM
“My step brother, uncle, and cousin came home worried about whether or not they were going to be accepted or spat upon when they reached America”.
Where on earth are they getting their information? Nowhere in the MSM have I ever seen or heard anything disrespectful about US troops. As a matter of fact, over the past few years I have been struck by the spontaneous shows of approval and support given to American servicemen in airports and other places. Some have even been given free upgrades to first class on airplanes, to the approval of the other passengers. Don’t service people talk to each other? Frankly, if what you say is true, I’m a little disappointed in their lack of faith in the American people.
Comment by timactual — August 19, 2005 @ 5:01 pm